tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post738264047544743634..comments2023-06-27T04:39:52.998-04:00Comments on Ithacans Opposed to the Twelve Tribes Cult: TT: Wikipedia whitewashers!Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger177125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-13729114451260297392014-09-21T20:11:44.840-04:002014-09-21T20:11:44.840-04:00Zeb, all income does not go to the community. When...Zeb, all income does not go to the community. When I was a member I saw when "the tithe" was instituted. 10% now goes up the chain of command in the Apostle's direction for "evangelism." There's no open accounting of finances. I'm not sure anyone knows, except for a couple people, how much money goes to the Apostle and his wife. <br />Ask yourself this question How can people tithe when they have already given up everything they ever owned and given all their money to the cult?<br /><br />Now they are giving up more than everything. Communities are giving up 10% money they need to buy socks and underwear. Sisters are growing bean sprouts to sell to scrap together a little change to buy socks and underwear!<br /> <br />The average member is really in poverty, working like a slave for room and board, and if you're single, you don't even get a private room, you get a tiny dorm room with 3 other people on bunk-beds with windows they don't even bother to repair the screens on to keep out the insects, listening to people snore and fart through the night. Enjoy.ex commune guyhttp://www.culteducation.com/group/1198-twelve-tribes-messianic-communities.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-49691915181615900652014-06-09T09:27:02.849-04:002014-06-09T09:27:02.849-04:00The Twelve Tribes can keep their factory farm anim...The Twelve Tribes can keep their factory farm animal meat served at their Mate Factor and Yellow Deli culty cafe's where gullible recruits work double shifts for no wages with no worker's insurance serving "the beehive." I was told by my "shepherd" that "adults are like children, they need to be kept busy or they get into trouble." So if you go there to live, you will be kept busy working and monitored. Have fun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-55889448276393360022014-05-23T19:22:52.087-04:002014-05-23T19:22:52.087-04:00They take everything you ever were, everything you...They take everything you ever were, everything you have, and everything you will ever be, in the name of their god. If you want to be nothing but a worker bee with programmed beliefs and behavior, it's just the place for you. Working long hours for the common good is not fantastic. Live there for a year first, then come back and let us know how fantastic it was. Of course all income goes to the commune. It's a cult. It's all about control. It's all about "losing your life." It is communism in a worse sense. I too once thought it was wonderful and beautiful. Then I saw the other side. There goal is to establish "the pattern" of their prophet and strictly obey. They say they have no leader. Big lie. Elbert Eugene Spriggs "Yoneq" and his wife Marsha Ann Duvall Spriggs "Haemeq" are their real leaders, not God and not Jesus/Yahshua.Marlonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-45901917119881551932014-04-19T20:15:20.095-04:002014-04-19T20:15:20.095-04:00i saw a big change in the people who came to the c...i saw a big change in the people who came to the community over the 5 years i visited. the children who moved in became much calmer and seemed to be happier - it was even pleasant to be with them in the common rooms and talk - meaningful and pleasant discussions. Most of the adults i met were amazing people and what they did for the common good was fantastic, working long hard hours for the good of everyone. All income went to the community.Zebhttp://news.twelvetribes.org/782-2/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-86193883473326561122014-04-16T00:03:19.805-04:002014-04-16T00:03:19.805-04:00I have a close friend who lived in the Tribes. The...I have a close friend who lived in the Tribes. The Tribes shepherd in the house got very upset and said, "I am God in this house." My friend said the shepherd sounded like he was possessed or something. The shepherd later apologized but tended to be very sarcastic, and some of his children ended up being very sarcastic and disrespectful also. Most of the shepherd's children later moved out when they got old enough. The Tribes is now calling people who leave: "drop-out's." Like something is wrong with them. But the Tribes always lift themselves up, and say they are the only ones bearing the good fruit of God in the world! There is something very wrong in the Tribes. They work very hard to make it seem beautiful, but inside the group my friend told me life is exhaustion, that they are all often told that they are to die, that dead men don't reason, have opinions, or think for themselves. This is very disturbing. New people moving in have been told to give all their books away or throw them out. There is very strong censorship control. My friend introduced me to people in the Ithaca commune. I like them very much. I like the clothing style and food. The children seem very well behaved. But is all well? Seems complicated? The men seem more happy than the women.Moniquehttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Life-in-the-Twelve-Tribes-Communities-Exposed/281484835197926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-56621698170352874962014-04-15T23:54:16.044-04:002014-04-15T23:54:16.044-04:00It is very wrong that Twelve Tribes members and th...It is very wrong that Twelve Tribes members and their children are now being taught that the German people in general are cowards, that they have a cowardly way in them that they need to be saved from. All this condemnation since the Tribe's children have been taken away, most of them, by social services in Germany due to the children being hit/spanked in the Tribes communities. So now the Tribes leadership is pointing to faulty character in the whole German people, as well as blaming them for Hitler. Is this what their Yahshua-Jesus would do? Are the Twelve Tribes loving their enemies as he would? The Twelve Tribes are playing the persecution card. They have broken laws in Germany, and they knew they were breaking these education and children laws. I have lost most respect for the Twelve Tribes. But, as usual, it is really not the members to blame. They do everything their apostle-prophet says to do. I feel sorry for the parents and children in the Tribes in Germany. What can be done about this situation? Why are the Tribes now directing racism against the German people? Just as they have done against the Jews and black people. They deny it, but they teach each other that black people and Jews remain cursed by God until they become part of their religion!Moniquehttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Life-in-the-Twelve-Tribes-Communities-Exposed/281484835197926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-40430791330944781972014-04-02T14:47:19.891-04:002014-04-02T14:47:19.891-04:00The education of the children is very poor (I am a...The education of the children is very poor (I am a qualified High School Science Teacher). The younger children seem to receive a reasonable education in math and English. The teachers all exercise the right to discipline the children with a rod for any disobedience and even hold a ceremony in the US for children entering training or school for the first time. The parents hand a rod to the teacher symbolizing that they give their complete authority to that teacher to discipline their child as they deem necessary. None of the teachers in Australia hold qualifications. As the children get older they are taught less and spend more time working. The Twelve Tribes do not hold education in high esteem but is looked down in many respects. The children adopt these same attitudes and therefore have no real interest in doing well. The “curriculum” for math is repetitive and does not go much beyond 6th class level.. Out of all the children I taught only one showed competency at this level. One student, age 17 demonstrated a math level less than an average year 7 student although not stupid. The classes I was present in usually focused only on basic math and English. Other subjects like science, geography, history, etc are only brushed over with incompetent instructors to satisfy the education inspectors and tried in some way to relate to the Bible. The teachers lacked resources and they never took the children to outside places such as libraries, museums or theaters. Only the leader’s children at Picton could access the local library. I believe the most damaging aspects of the children’s education are their inability to think or work independently, to rationalize, to research and to exercise critical thought. They can not read books except the Bible. They usually try to get out of as much schooling as possible and seek to work instead. They also receive much physical discipline during their schooling, particularly the boys. Later if they leave (about 90% in the US ) they feel stupid around their peers and their general knowledge is abysmal. They earn no certificates at all and must independently educate themselves in order to achieve their potential in life. Sadly many of them don’t possess the skills to read a novel, because they lack the ability to concentrate on books. The teachers give their students no regular homework or independent research for school projects making academic success elusive for these children. Usually the girls remain in the community perhaps because they don’t experience exposure to the outside world like the boys with their work. The whole role of women in the group is subservience. Maybe this is part of the reason? The whole focus of child raising is to develop obedient servants. Suisethttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_communitiesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-76379444692289309762014-03-31T19:35:19.614-04:002014-03-31T19:35:19.614-04:00It is somewhat telling that they are always referr...It is somewhat telling that they are always referring to Jesus as their "Master Yahshua." And telling that they cry out to Yahshua at baptism for salvation. Did Jesus teach that? No, not at all. He always emphasize dealing directly with God, and he didn't make himself into God or declare himself to be a mediator. The Tribes accuse Christianity of having a "white bread Jesus." They may have a whole-grain Yahshua loaf, but what's the difference? Both movements have created their own Messiah. Islam has done the same. And none of them like the Jews, and the Jews probably don't like them very much either. Go figure. The wonderful world of religion. Instead of Alice in Wonderland. It's apostle Yoneq in the world of the Twelve Tribes. It's the world he created. And he got to be the pope and "the anointing." What was he anointed with? The oil of control and deception? If you want to be saved by God, should you lay your wealth at the feet of the apostle? A fool and his money are soon parted. I was one of the fools. Thanks Yoneq for a hard lesson and for being a sincere carnival con man. You really outdid yourself, and lasted a lot longer than Jim Jones. Instead of koolaid, you brought mate.Leonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-45546852959306411022014-03-31T19:18:02.839-04:002014-03-31T19:18:02.839-04:00Concerning the children taken away from the commun...Concerning the children taken away from the community in Germany, they definitely were spanked, but I really don't know if I would call it abuse or not. (?) If you do the math, each child was not hit more than 12 times on the butt. However, it is against the law to hit children at all in Germany. So why did the Tribes move there, knowing this? Who decided?<br />I didn't like it that a former Tribes boy was put under the discipline 24hrs. of his school teacher who would wake him up at 2am daily for wetting his bed. Is this appropriate. My wife wonders if he did stop wetting his bed? If he did would the hitting by a non-parent be justified. It went on a couple weeks. He now seems happy to be out of the Tribes. He is an adult now. He was not removed by the German government recently. But shared his story previously. I wish the Tribes children in Germany did not have to go through this. I feel like the Tribes leadership provoked this unnecessary drama in Germany. And now that they have done this, are playing the persecution card to reinforce their belief that they alone are the Truth and that Evil persecutes the Truth. When will the Tribes nonsense end? Leonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-3442149559687980992014-03-31T18:32:23.812-04:002014-03-31T18:32:23.812-04:00"Messengers" will soon be traveling/&quo..."Messengers" will soon be traveling/"circulating" from community to community to inspect the local Tribes life to make sure it is conforming to "the Pattern" that their apostle "Yoneq" Elbert Eugene Spriggs has established. I guess they'll be like regional and national supervisors. Someone has to maintain uniformity after Yoneq passes on. Members are being told not to be concerned about this. That it is a good thing. This is "the latest word." <br />One "traveling dignitary" once told me our community had cobwebs about 15 feet above a back entry way. I felt like telling him to get his dignified ass up there to take it down, but I didn't. I hope their stupid communities collapse under the weight of Yoneq's stupidity. They condemn all other religions, but they are no better. What's going on? What's really behind the Twelve Tribes movement? Yoneq doesn't want fame. He's somewhat cowardly. Is it money? Control over people? Any ideas?Leonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-66587044960471678242014-03-28T21:39:40.214-04:002014-03-28T21:39:40.214-04:00There is quite a strong, varied commentary here; I... <br />There is quite a strong, varied commentary here; I think that I would go see for myself before believing any one side of this particular story. Actually, I did, ; ) and couldn't believe what I saw. I have never seen anything so good and real in all my life. I guess someone who hates good could make good sound bad. There is only one way to know the truth for sure.findingtruth2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-61120499979433082312014-03-28T17:40:01.360-04:002014-03-28T17:40:01.360-04:00Having lived in the Twelve Tribes and having studi...Having lived in the Twelve Tribes and having studied the Teachings as a member, and then having left the community, I am almost completely unable to clearly evaluate this life for myself anymore. Something that would be commonsense to others, is no longer commonsense to me. Something happened, I'm not sure what. Some would call them a cult, or that it is brainwashing. I can say I am no longer the person I once was. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-69253242443173639422014-03-25T18:54:48.412-04:002014-03-25T18:54:48.412-04:00Hi Doug, I think I lived with you before in the co...Hi Doug, I think I lived with you before in the communities, but not sure if this is so. Seems like the main problem in the Tribes is the prophet-hood, apostleship, and Elijah status of Elbert Eugene Spriggs, and the unquestioned Teachings. Similar situation Prophetess Ellen G. White and the Seventh-day Adventist church. I consider the Tribes actually an offshoot of the SDA. At the same time without the strong central authority of Gene "Yoneq" and his wife who got herself into a big double-standard moral mess, I really doubt the communities could have progressed to where they are today. It is no easy matter to basically begin a whole new religion and communal lifestyle at the same time. You really have to be inspired or deeply deceived to go forward year after year with all the challenges to unity and numerous defeats. So I have to admire the whole operation in some ways, the love that exists, the unity, the homeschooling to some extent, the music and dance and healthier diet than probably most people have. But there seem to also be serious problems and some abuses, and some of the beliefs blatantly grown on false foundations, such as the now infamous Cham Teaching, the unquestioned Elijah status of the founder, and a type of clergy-laity system of their own, which they blanket condemn all of Christianity for: the pastor and the congregation, while the Tribes have the Apostle-Apostle workers-elders-Shepherds ruling over "the sheep." And they are ever so ready to grad people's money and property, their own cash-gifting program with the Jesus seal of approval. Why not have the people give their money to charity, like monks and nuns do. The Tribes are too greedy for that. Jesus never told the disciples to give their money to him when they joined up. It will be interesting to see where this whole Tribes thing will ultimately end up. Their main doctrine seems to be living communally and joining them in do so to be forgiven by God to a better Heaven than anyone else.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-65322130612415486332014-03-25T18:01:44.391-04:002014-03-25T18:01:44.391-04:00I lived with Aquilla, and though he did seem maybe...I lived with Aquilla, and though he did seem maybe more self-centered than some of the other long-time members, he and his wife were kind to me and gave me some extra clothing. They didn't have to, but they did. <br /><br />Also the communities do take in people that nobody else wants. People that have lost their jobs, people that have no where else to go, people that don't fit into society for one reason or another. Not many people would be willing or able to do this.Terrinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-21121980514734857122014-03-24T22:41:22.706-04:002014-03-24T22:41:22.706-04:00I just read the article about the Twelve Tribes an...I just read the article about the Twelve Tribes and I thought everything has anther side to it. I lived with the Twelve Tribes for about seven months. I found these people to be controlling, some people, i.e., some members to be abusive to their children, and I found that the leaders (Desha and Aquila for example) to hold to a double standard. They, the leaders preach do not lie but in the end they lie to reach an for themselves, what ever end this might be.<br />I found my time with these people to be very taxing because as time went along, I depended on them for more and I had this sense of if I did not perform I would be outcast.<br /><br />I also found that these people would just take things from a person and some how use the scripture "give all things up." They stripped the person (in this case me) of all sense of being.<br /><br />These people do indeed use language in a setting to bend a person to a certain setting. I was called a "sodomite", "Gay", "homosexual" because I shaved the back of my neck. I was also yelled at in front of people with violence and in the end was told the person was sorry for acting the way they did toward me. Nevertheless the damage was done.<br /><br />I am no expert; however, I was a paralegal and I wonder about things like how can a person live in a "non-profit" setting and then work for a profit company "Common Wealth Construction" and when asked for a W-4 not be given a reply.<br /><br />The community in Savannah has at least four properties with a huge debt load and yet the "Common Wealth Construction" company is paying for this debt. Again, I wonder about tax law, about the legal area of this.<br /><br />I have sent an email regarding some of belongings (my bank card, a ruby ring) but have not received a reply).hereisdougnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-3900910211847321532014-03-24T21:20:40.249-04:002014-03-24T21:20:40.249-04:00CULTS PATTERNS
Characteristics Associated with C...CULTS PATTERNS <br />Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised <br />Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.<br /><br />Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, <br />and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.<br /><br />Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.<br /><br />#1 The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.<br /><br />#2 Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.<br /><br />#3 Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).<br /><br /> #4 The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).<br /><br /> #5 The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).<br /><br />#6 The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.<br /><br />#7 The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).<br /><br />#8 The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).<br /><br />#9 The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.<br /><br />#10 Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.<br /><br />#11 The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.<br /><br />#12 The group is preoccupied with making money.<br /><br />#13 Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.<br /><br />#14 Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.<br /><br />#15 The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.<br /><br />This checklist was adapted from a checklist originally developed by Michael Langone.former memberhttp://truthbook.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-60020931215677220902014-03-24T21:14:19.179-04:002014-03-24T21:14:19.179-04:00I did write to the German court regarding the situ...I did write to the German court regarding the situation with the Tribes children who have been removed from the Tribes by the government and placed in foster homes or orphanages, and suggested yearly medical exams for all Twelve Tribes children, and an end to the home circumcisions for male babies, as well as a high school level education for all Tribes children. Obviously the situation of parents losing their children is disturbing as well as the child discipline that was shown occurring in the Tribes show on German national TV as well as interviews with former Tribes children and parents. Why did the Tribes move into Germany, knowing full well it's against the law to hit children there? Why? I did sign a petition for the children to be returned to the parents, because I feel it's more damaging for the children to be away from their families. However I made it clear that Elbert Eugene Spriggs the Tribes Apostle-Prophet-Elijah should be the one who is on trial, because he determined mosy everything the Tribes believe and do upon threat of members being banished and losing their salvation before God. Mr. Spriggs has condemned others of being cowards. Well he should be in Germany. He always seems to absent when trouble occurs. If he is the Apostle, he should be on the front line of trouble with his wife Marsha and Eddie Wiseman. I have lost most of my confidence in the Twelve Tribes. I miss it there, but how can I believe in them or there anti-Christian anti-Government God? Can you blame me? I wanted to believe in them, but how can I?former memberhttp://truthbook.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-91749223040847829892014-03-21T02:10:20.367-04:002014-03-21T02:10:20.367-04:00In all fairness to the Tribes, I wanted to include...In all fairness to the Tribes, I wanted to include this link to a video a professor filmed with his University students showing the happiness and joy that is also a very real part of their life together:<br /><br />http://vimeo.com/85696567<br /><br />"This short video documents my visit with my Franklin Pierce University students to the two Twelve Tribes communities in San Sebastian and Irun, Spain during our walk/study abroad pilgrimage along the Camino de Santiago in the summer/fall of 2013. The communities gave us the most gracious hospitality during our weekend stay with them and generously shared their lives with us."FormerMember PostiveVideoLinkhttp://vimeo.com/85696567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-82384755690891989392014-03-21T01:40:15.137-04:002014-03-21T01:40:15.137-04:00The Twelve Tribes prophet-apostle has taken this s...The Twelve Tribes prophet-apostle has taken this several steps further in elevating himself to an Elijah position of the end times and mandating a communal lifestyle, many traditions, and really a very superior/elite proud mentality somewhat cloaked. Ask yourself these questions: Will you go to a Death punishment or a worse eternal Lake of Fire punishment if you do not join the Twelve Tribes community and give them all of your life, money and possessions? They tend to skirt around this, but in reality to their understanding, if you do not join their organization and become their property ("giving up your rottin' stinkin' life in the world") you will not under any circumstances ever go to the Holy City Heaven that they intend to go to after death. You may live outside the Holy City and work on a work crew supervised by them, but you will not be in the best Heaven reserved for God's People.<br /><br />I have a big problem with this.<br />Their apostle has set up the Twelve Tribes as to only true Church, and the only True Jews. And he has been the Pope of it all. All others are condemned. How did it all come to this? Is he sincere? Does he think he has heard from God? Did he make this up as he went along? Does he hear a voice or voices? How did he become "The Anointing" "The Elijah?" These are just many questions I have. But am I just wasting my time thinking about any of it? <br />Obviously, I wish things could be different. That the good, beautiful, and healthy elements would remain, and that the untrue, and hurtful could be removed. But only Elbert Eugene Spriggs "Yoneq" has the power to do that. Will he? Does he see any need to? If he did, would he? I pray to a loving God he will.former memberhttp://truthbook.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-57021788550658810702014-03-21T01:23:33.051-04:002014-03-21T01:23:33.051-04:00"In the enthusiasm of Pentecost, Peter uninte..."In the enthusiasm of Pentecost, Peter unintentionally inaugurated a new religion, the religion of the risen and glorified Christ. The Apostle Paul later on transformed this new gospel into Christianity, a religion embodying his own theologic views and portraying his own personal experience with the Jesus of the Damascus road. The gospel of the kingdom is founded on the personal religious experience of the Jesus of Galilee; Christianity is founded almost exclusively on the personal religious experience of the Apostle Paul. Almost the whole of the New Testament is devoted, not to the portrayal of the significant and inspiring religious life of Jesus, but to a discussion of Paul's religious experience and to a portrayal of his personal religious convictions. The only notable exceptions to this statement, aside from certain parts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, are the Book of Hebrews and the Epistle of James. Even Peter, in his writing, only once reverted to the personal religious life of his Master."<br /><br />"The whole Christian movement tended away from the human picture of Jesus of Nazareth toward the exaltation of the risen Christ, the glorified and soon-returning Lord Jesus Christ."<br /><br />196:2.6 "Jesus founded the religion of personal experience in doing the will of God and serving the human brotherhood; Paul founded a religion in which the glorified Jesus became the object of worship and the brotherhood consisted of fellow believers in the divine Christ."<br />(Urantia Book, Paper 196, as a humble contrast to Twelve Tribes understanding)former memberhttp://urantia.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-70118742989362928162014-03-21T01:12:45.996-04:002014-03-21T01:12:45.996-04:00I would like to be able to continue friendships wi...I would like to be able to continue friendships with people I know in the Twelve Tribes, but as a former member, I find this very difficult to do. My friends in the Tribes have been very patient with me, but we do have serious differences between us. For me to return to the Tribes, which in some ways, I would love to do, would require I consent to Teachings such as the Cham Teaching on black people and other Teachings such as the Tribes being the only People at this time who are being forgiven by God and who are the only work of God on earth etc. And the home births and home circumcisions. I sincerely believe that Joshua Ben Joseph's (Jesus) message was much simpler as first taught. Simply: love for God, and love for each human being as a brother or sister. Saul of Tarsus was a prime spokesman to alter this simple gospel, and making it necessary to join something and adhere to his gospel about Jesus versus the gospel of Jesus.former memberhttp://truthbook.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-34556187134106460832014-03-21T01:02:41.446-04:002014-03-21T01:02:41.446-04:00I very much admire various aspects of the Twelve T...I very much admire various aspects of the Twelve Tribes, but I cannot in all honesty ignore the negative and harmful elements either. As a former Muslim, I see this same tendency in the Tribes as in Islam. Both groups will distort the truth and reality in order to protect the reputation of the founder and the religion, and the member may not criticize the founder, the teachings or laws. And when things go wrong in the religion, individual(s) are blamed, and never the founder of the religion itself. This is very disturbing to me. This ushers in deceit/dishonesty. Even though I consider myself a person of faith, have had various esoteric experiences, and have a love for a universal Source/Origin of Life, I want to be able to be completely honest/candid about my evolving knowledge, belief, and faith about all matters. I feel I don't need to have to defend any founder or creed, except an individuals human rights, including the right to freely think, question, and draw one's own conclusions, which may change. In the Tribes, I was locked into the Teachings, and any serious questions about Yoneq (or Muhammad in Islam) were met with an instruction not to question, but instead to trust.former memberhttp://truthbook.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-22387736336107238722014-03-21T00:49:54.402-04:002014-03-21T00:49:54.402-04:00For me, this sheds further light about the subject...For me, this sheds further light about the subject of economic communalism among the believers in Jesus after he departed. I humbly present it here for your consideration:<br />"194:4.7 Unmistakably, a new fellowship was arising in the world. “The multitude who believed continued steadfastly in the apostles' teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.” They called each other brother and sister; they greeted one another with a holy kiss; they ministered to the poor. It was a fellowship of living as well as of worship. They were not communal by decree but by the desire to share their goods with their fellow believers. They confidently expected that Jesus would return to complete the establishment of the Father’s kingdom during their generation. This spontaneous sharing of earthly possessions was not a direct feature of Jesus’ teaching; it came about because these men and women so sincerely and so confidently believed that he was to return any day to finish his work and to consummate the kingdom. But the final results of this well-meant experiment in thoughtless brotherly love were disastrous and sorrow-breeding. Thousands of earnest believers sold their property and disposed of all their capital goods and other productive assets. With the passing of time, the dwindling resources of Christian “equal-sharing” came to an end—but the world did not. Very soon the believers at Antioch were taking up a collection to keep their fellow believers at Jerusalem from starving." (Urantia Book, Paper 194)former memberhttp://truthbook.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-72768034982885071762014-03-21T00:38:33.293-04:002014-03-21T00:38:33.293-04:00I read the above again, and it really moved me. I ...I read the above again, and it really moved me. I think a question everyone needs to ask themselves in relation to the communities is this: When a person "gives up their life" and "gives up everything to follow Yahshua"(Jesus) in the Twelve Tribes, are they really giving it all up to follow and obey God, or is it really giving it all up to follow the Twelve Tribes apostle Elbert Spriggs and his understanding of how life should be? I am glad for these various websites that get into the nitty-gritty of the Messianic Communities, because new recruits are really not given the complete picture to make a more sound decision. Much is said about the first church of believers and how they lived communally like the Twelve Tribes. Is this really accurate? Did the Apostle Paul/Saul of Tarsus really establish communal churches? As the Tribes say. The Pattern?former memberhttp://truthbook.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31858192.post-84405202322573325612014-03-20T03:56:55.443-04:002014-03-20T03:56:55.443-04:00The family spent a year in Auckland before returni...The family spent a year in Auckland before returning to Sydney. "We wanted to be closer to Undila," Mark says of the decision to return. "At that stage we thought we might have a chance of maintaining contact."<br /><br />But they were wrong. Undila, who had a daughter in 2011, has made it clear she wants nothing to do with her family. "When you ring her she says doesn't want to talk to us," Mark says. "When you go there, her husband comes to the gate and says, 'Look, I told you, you're not allowed here. Don't come here.' The last time we went there, Rose got very emotional. She was crying. Our little granddaughter was there, and a couple of elders came up to cover the situation."<br /><br />Mark and Rose now live in the Blue Mountains, with Lebana and Abraham, and are slowly putting their lives back together. Mark works in maintenance and has got back into surfing and music. He plays drums in a band called the Fabulous Shapelles and gives drum lessons at home. "I'm 53 years old, but it feels like I'm 21," he says. "It's like I'm starting over again, because you come out with nothing."<br /><br />Rose works as a cleaner. "It's a bit of a disappointment to my family," she says. "I don't want to spend my life being a cleaner."<br /><br />She has read about mind control, trying to come to terms with her experience. "When I look back, I can't believe it all happened. It's so bizarre. It's like I became a completely different person."<br /><br />In the cult, she notes, they decide who has the right to exist and who does not. "But here we are," she says. "We still exist. That's something."<br /><br />- The Twelve Tribes was approached by Good Weekend, but declined to comment. frmer memberhttp://truthbook.comnoreply@blogger.com