Wednesday, August 09, 2006

Why Blacks deserve to be slaves, explained...



When confronted by critics charging racism, TT'ers usually counter that the statements of Spriggs and other leaders are taken "out of context." If only we saw the statement "in context," they say, the loving intent of the teaching would be made clear. So in the interest of fairness to these chowderheads, here is an unexpurgated article from the April 1997 "Intertribal News" that lovingly explains why people of African descent (Cham) need to give up the uppitiness and serve their rightful master, Shem (white folks). It's all right there in the Bible. You see, Ol Noah passed out naked after a bit too much wine and his son Cham didn't cover up his pop's exposed "loins" when he had the chance and so from then on all black people are cursed to be slaves. But there are a few things to consider when you compare this interpretation of the story (the one used by 17th - 19th century apologists for slavery) and the actual story in Genesis 9:18-29. Most importantly for our purposes, where does it say that Ham (Cham), Shem and Japheth correspond to African, Asian and European? How could skin tones or other features be much different between Ham and his brothers, who are presumably full siblings? Did that come later? I have to admit that for me this Bible story raises many interesting questions, but none of them have to do with race or skin color (which is not mentioned). Why does Ham get the blame for this incident and why is his inadvertant glance curse-worthy? Why does Canaan get the curse? Why was Noah naked? Did he take his clothes off before getting drunk, or after, or were his clothes stolen by someone while he was unconscious? Is this proper behavior for the sire of all post-diluvian mankind and what do we make of Yahweh's s silence on drunkeness and apparent consent to the curse? And finally, where is Noah's wife when all of this is going on? (I am quite sure my wife would prevent such an incident from ever taking place in our household.) Of course, these aren't questions to put uniquely to the Twelve Tribes, but I wonder, can a curious Twelve Tribes child ask their parents or Yoneq (Spriggs) these questions?

I apologize for the length of the article below, but I couldn't bear to leave out a word.

LEPROSY........... A PEOPLE

Slow... insidious... imperceptible... deadly!!! If one were to describe leprosy, the above words would be necessary as part of the description. Most cases of leprosy come as a surprise. The causative agent stays in the body for up to three years before the signs and symptoms start to appear. This means that for three years the victim walks around thinking that he is perfectly normal, yet within him is the sentence to a horrible, devastating form of death. Before modern technology and the loss of common sense, lepers were rejected from society... outcasts... untouchables... unapproachables... unacceptable. People wanted to protect their society from contamination by contact. They knew that lepers were “unclean,” whether they had that terminology in their society or not. A leper was perhaps the loneliest person in the world... longing for another life... wishing he could be different... hoping that it would, by some miracle, just go away. Only in the last few moments of his ravaged life does the hard reality strike him... there is no healing. Like a leper, Cham spends his whole life being superficially “ac- cepted,” when, in reality, he is neither accepted, nor acceptable. He feels always held at a distance, never able to come close, or be approved of. As a people, Cham’s whole being aches for that approval. He tries every false, empty way to gain it. Cham desires the approval of Shem, and of God. He can psychologi- cally convince himself of God’s approval through the influence of the numerous churches so prevalent among Chamites, but the reality of Shem’s rejection... rather Shem’s insistence that Cham remain in his “place,” reminds Cham that God is not pleased with his striving, his arrogance, and his rebellion. Cham, instead of humbling himself, be- comes even more arrogant and rebellious (except for those truly sensitive ones who receive their lot, and are grateful to a merciful God, as far as they can understand things). What makes Cham unacceptable, full of strife, longing to be accepted? The answer lies in history. Everyone knows the story of Noah and his three sons, how they built the ark in the midst of a time of turmoil and corruption that had reached it’s peak... so much so that the day of toleration was to end as soon as Noah and his family entered the ark. Noah’s sons were men well advanced in age upon entering the ark. It took them and Noah more than 100 years to build it. They were not naive little boys. They were aware of the kinds of corruption that filled the earth to the point that God had to destroy all humanity, except for a remnant. There was, therefore, no excuse for Cham’s later behavior. Being the only human beings to survive the flood, Noah and his sons, and their families had the incredible opportunity to repopulate the earth with a righteous people, all turning their hearts to the God of Noah. They were given the same command as Adam was given before he fell... to be fruitful and multiply, filling the earth with those who would honor God with all their hearts, as Noah did. That’s why Cham’s sin was so serious. Embarking on this journey into a new age had no deep significance to Cham. He saw, and understood how the corruption in people had destroyed all humanity just a few days before, yet he didn’t allow it to affect his own heart. He had allowed the decadence and immorality he had seen around him while growing up to find a comfortable place in his heart. He carried the memory as a cherished object of his reflections. He carried it from the age of destruction into the new age. A defilement as deadly as radiation, ready to be released upon a yet unborn humanity. The defilement was subtle and seemingly insignificant. Cham went to his brothers, after having seen his father lying nude in his tent, to defile them with his description of what he saw... his own corrupt and defiled heart gushing out like detestable rottenness. That’s how Shem and Yapheth received Cham’s words and spirit. They saw the dishonor and disrespect. They remembered the flood and why it happened. Together Shem and Yapheth delivered two-thirds of mankind in their loins from being cursed. They sensed the magnitude of such defilement. Backing into the tent, they preserved their father’s dignity, and their own race... and covered him. By that one act Cham plunged his descendants into a morass of behavior, attitudes, and mind-set that have plagued and imprisoned the whole race down to this day. Noah’s curse upon Cham’s son Canaan was real and valid. All heaven supported and assured it’s effectiveness. Noah was God’s only spokesman... the curse must go into effect. Canaan and his descendants were cursed to be slaves to the descen- dants of Shem and Yapheth who saw the value of preserving what is good and righteous. Shem and Yapheth honored their father above all else except God. How can serving be a curse? It is a curse when one’s tendency and desire is not to serve. Cham was lazy and perverted. Noah, his father, knew him well, and he was aware of the fact that Cham would put his fallenness into... pass on his iniquities to his son Canaan. Noah knew the son would be just like the father and worse. Therefore serving, being in a low place... the very thing Cham’s seed hated and avoided... this was to be upon the seed of Cham until it went into their genes and chromosomes, causing the race to be known for their servitude and hospitality. Through the centuries of history this curse was never realized until Shem took his ships and brought Cham to his tents. Then began the training... the discipline. It was clearly as Noah spoke it. Most of Cham’s descendants submitted... many chose to rebel... masking their rebellion with the “noble” cry for freedom from the “op- pressor.” The rebels encountered the solid wall of resistance in the form of harsh discipline, and even death. Those who chose to submit found loving masters who cared for their needs... masters who wept when they were sick or dying... who entrusted their own flesh and blood to be nursed and nurtured on the breasts of Cham. Shem, the eldest son of Noah... lovingly carrying out the discipline of our Father for the good of his baby brother Cham who was the youngest son of Noah. Cham found his place. He found acceptance and approval while in submission. He was given responsibility, and his giftings came out in marvellous ways, especially in the culinary arts, and in serving. To this day no one can cook and serve like Cham when he is submissive. There was peace, and there was order. Shem, who lived by the covenant God made with man after Adam fell, understood in his spirit this discipline of servitude was good for the race of Cham and for humanity. But those of Shem who rejected the instinctive knowledge of God, and the instinctive understanding of God’s ways, strove against God’s purpose for Cham’s healing. Men rose up among Cham... “leaders.” Men crying out for “justice” in the name of God, while working against the very machinery God had instituted. Shem became affected by the outcry, and began supporting Cham, while in his heart not wanting to be near him. Shem was not making laws to make things easier for Cham because he loved him... he made those laws because of political pressure from both Cham and fallen Shem who have no place for the knowledge of God in their hearts. Cham knew he was not accepted. The black liberation movement, accompanied by much pomp and circumstance, proclaimed “Freedom.” Shem was successfully made to feel guilty for carrying out the purpose of God which was meant for the healing of a race.. The contamination entered every phase of American and European life. Civil Rights became Human Rights... Gay Rights... Women’s Lib...Cham now had no loving master. There was no place in this modern society where his perverted bent, inherited from his progenitor, could be dealt with, and he could be brought into order, fulfilling the instinctive purpose God put into him. He strives now to be like Shem. In this unstable territory he is suspicious, sullen, angry, bitter. Whether he becomes president of a large corporation, economically successful, or even president of the United States... the ever-present droning goes on in his spirit... Cham is neither accepted, nor acceptable. ...Every member of the race of Cham who has ever lived in the midst of Shem knows the deep loneliness, insecurity, and the fears of not being accepted... being told that you are not acceptable. It matters not how strongly Cham denies it, or uses his success as a means of denial... he feels the alienation. God’s purpose and plan in the cursing of Cham was to bring about, through that discipline, a people who would serve willingly, thus making them worthy of the nations. Many will be great in the nations, because they chose to submit to their masters... the instruments of God’s choice. Now, through Yahshua, there is the lifting of the curse that has plagued Cham through the centuries. Only in Him can Cham be made acceptable, and be accepted. Only in that place where Yahshua’s life is a living demonstration can Cham find those who will receive him as a human being worthy of the dignity that is inherent in those created in God’s image. In that place Cham can begin to learn to be who he was created to be... serving right along side of Shem and Yapheth who always served from the beginning. Brothers finally serving brothers on an equal basis, as priests of God... truly submitting to one another. Those warm, loving hands, kind voice, compassionate eyes are living reality where God has gathered those who were once “lepers” from every nation and people. -Shalom from Yochanan Abraham in Sus"
P.S. now a shocker: I learned after posting this from several ex-TTers that "Yochanan Abraham" is himself a man of African descent (a "Chammite" in TT-speak). On August 12th on the Commons, some of us saw and heard what seemed a real black man explain how the civil rights movement of the 1950s & 60s was wrong-headed and against God's plan. If you're an African American with severe self-esteem issues, you're wanted, welcome, and oh-so-very useful in the Twelve Tribes!

27 comments:

John said...

I was growing up in the Twelve Tribes in Island Pond, Vermont. I had a classmate who is black and we were very good friends together. I have told my father that I want to marry her. He said that I must be black to marry her, i got so upset about this and i felt that they do not understand how the black are being treated in the Twelve Tribes community. Now i realized how much I love being with black because they do not deserve to be disciminated base on their color skins. I have some friends who are black from my college days and I respect them deeply from what I have been taught and seen from the black living in the community. It is making me so angry for how they been treating the black in the community. The TT are so wrong with what they taught about how black are still under God's curse and still be slaves to the White. I believe that everyone should respect their cultures and diversity. the TT are so ignornace of this and ignore the understand how important the races are in the world.

Aloysius Horn said...

John: Thanks for the comments you've posted. Having been in Twelve Tribes, there is no doubt much we can learn from you. It would be great to talk with you in greater depth. Can you email Aaron (the other moderator), or join the message list (from link on iottc page) and send one of us a message?

Cortez said...

A boycott is an excellent way to stop a company, or any party for that matter, that is doing wrong things and producing revenue by distributing a product or service of some kind.
So enough of the P.C. jargon, a boycott of the Twelve Tribes products is an excellent endevour. They are one of the most detrimental mind control cults on the planet and they are hurting people. Besides that, for me the most horrible aspect of their communities is that they blaspheme The Creator and destroy really good peoples' Faith in The Creator, The Living Spirit of The Messiah.
Regardless of whether you believe in The Creator and The Living Spirit, these people are ruining peoples' lives in more physical, mental and spiritual ways as well. They dictate how they must eat and their medical/health care practises and abilities, or availabilities. As mentioned they teach racism, undeniably. Some people that need certain medical treatments are denied and called faithless and treated like real burdens, and made to feel guilty while others have prescriptions for drugs to treat depression and other mental disease that are probably just keeping them mentally ill rather than really treating the problems. Some members' credit has been ruined and they are told that personal is of the world and not needed by them now in the communities. Some are kicked out for unfounded reasons, and even deceptive, or cruel reasons and given nothing to re-establish themselves in society with. Just to name a few facts about them.
I realize that this entry is somewhat discombobulated but I don't really have time to edit and write a really ordered and coherant piece here now.
Boycotting these people would be the thing to do by everyone especially true followers of The Way, The Truth and The Life.
I also think we should all start using biodiesel, ethynol, and electrical vehicles and produce our electricity with solar panels, and boycott OPEC and all the oil mongers and their corrupt CEO's and chronies and offshoot companies also. This would free up our country to work on real homeland securities and independence once again, but that's a different subject and thread and you can see that I am a radical and an activist. I do use biodiesel in my vehicle and sailing vessel.
I believe wholeheartedly the words of our Elohim and The Messiah and know that they are One. I know that the media are lieing and Hollywood and other TV producers make 99.9% garbage. We homeschool our children. We practice discipline and Order in our family and household. I agree with many of the teachings of the TT but these people are being mislead by liers and dictators, mainly Yoneq and his "wife." They are some of the most incredibly damned hypocrits on the planet if they don't change, confess and repent. The Scripture says that you will know them by their fruit and I am not judgeing nor condemning them, I have seen and am in touch with many of their fruit. They are recovering by the Grace of our Father from TT's rotteness.
The TT pay the people in their businesses nothing. Sure they "provide"their needs and in is "voluntary," but honestly it is manipulation and control and there are certain peple in certain positions which have way more than their needs and there are many that don't even have the food and/or underware that they need very much.
Some of their children are abused and definitlely deprived of very simple things. I homeschool and keep my children from being poluted by the "world" but my children play soccer with the teams at the YMCA and ride bicyles ask the TT what the "wheel spirit" is and why children can't ride bikes. ? Because they might escape!

Cortez said...

Sorry, bicycles.Ooops. That's not my only typo. I meant underwear. Anyway, I hope the fews points I made are clear. There are some good people there and they need to be helped OUT. Yoneq and his "wife need to turn from the self-centered, pride filled deceptions and be Free; Truth, Whole Truth and nothing but The Truth.

Cortez said...

Without offending you John I would like to make the point that the language arts education that John received in the TT appears to be lacking very much. I am far from perfect and everyone makes mistakes but I want to take this opportunity to have you all look at the very elementary grammatical mistakes that John makes in his post consistantly. The mixing up of verb tenses and subject verb agreement to name a couple. Not that this is insurmountable or a huge problem in the essence of life and/or pertaining to the grand scheme of things but my point is that in little ways and some very big ways these people are being messed up, especially the children!!!! Most of it is not but some of it could be intentional on some of the leaders' parts. It must be.

Cortez said...

The language mistakes are very much like, and should be indicative, of an English second language learner. He probably is. That would be my guess but their instructors still should have been able to help John in a real way.

Aloysius Horn said...

I hope John gets back in touch with us and fills us in on his background. It would be interesting to see examples of writing from the TT home-schooled kids. In NY state, they are required by law to provide home instruction until the age of 16 and must submit quarterly reports and once-yearly standardized test scores to the local school district for each pupil. Any idea how closely TT communities comply with home schooling laws?

Anonymous said...

I think this John is probably John Issac, a wonderful young man who is also deaf, so yes,the written English language is secondary to his first language, which would be sign language.

Anonymous said...

pretty sad to see how you just take what you read and hear and pass it on... this website is a load of crap for any one with any degree of intelligence... anyone deceived by this website is certainly unwise... it is indeed you people who are the haters... anyone with intelligence can see that... you deceive the unwise... that is your path... sad indeed.... your interpretation of their life couldnt be further from the truth... its obvious you are some do gooder democrat progressive type thinking hes gonna change the world by passing on some unverified garbage about a people you dont understand... i see you crawling around on the web now trying to exploit ex-members for your cause... what a loath... you and bob pardon have alot in common... you two should talk about how you exploit others... you could learn alot from one another !

Aloysius Horn said...

To the anonymous who provided information on the earlier poster named John: thanks. Your interpretation would make sense. I hope John continues to contribute comments here.

To the anonymous poster directly above & everyone else: please limit identical comments (even positive ones) to a single article on the blog!

Cortez said...

Yes, please Anonymous, address the issues. What are the TT's teaching about black people? Ham? The "wheel spirit"? Why are children not allowed to ride bicycles? Are people paid for their work? Do the TT pay their taxes righteously according to the laws of the land they live in? I mean above board, each person pays taxes on the income they produce in the businesses and not including people who stay home and do household chores as people employed by the Common Grounds Cafe? They aren't employed there and are averaged in to calculate taxes, just to name a few. Submit to autority. Give to Cesar what is Cesar's remember the words of Yahushua? I guess Yoneq has some selective interpretation of those quotes of The Master, Yahushua.Interpretaions to suite his purposes of power and the desire of money. Does Yoneq make sure all of the group have all in common as according to the Body of Yahushua from the beginning? Why are many people lacking in a group with some much wealth? Yahushua is not waiting for "His people to get it together" that He will come at that time. Our Father has a certain time when The Messiah will return whether the body/Temple is rebuilt according to His perfect will or not. The TT looks like every other mainstream church of ?Babylon. And He says come out of her, My People.
Oooops, forgive me for getting a little carried away in The Truth.
Please address some of the real issues like the ones mentioned above, oh, and maybe more importantly, elders of the TT lying, bold faced lying and justifying it as being okay when talking to outsiders ie. people not of the annointing. Address that teaching please.

wonderingaboutalot said...

the tt very closely follow home schooling laws in ny state. they report to the local schooldistrict office and register. the state officials have been very impressed in the tts homeschooling curriculum and application. the teachers also fill out progress reports and give them to state officials.
Also I know of many of their homeschooled kids(and grown ones) who are very intelligent and articulate. just like at public school if you apply yourself you will do well.

Cortez said...

Do they all capitalize their writings as well as you do?

Cortez said...

The previous is just a simple, sincere question. I truly would like to know if most of the Tribe's educated people capitalize as well as you. And, how long have you been part of the communities? Are you still a member? Do you work with Bob's Odd Jobs, oh, pardon me, I mean Builders Of Jahuda? Were you in their schools when they were the Northeast Kingdom Community Church? Were you a Dead Head also? Kind of ironic that so many of the leadership were Dead Heads. They are still following the dead. The point is that many aspects of the Tribe's communinities are deceptive. When they got in trouble as the Vineyard Church they left Tennessee and changed the name and then when they got in trouble as the Northeast Kingdom... they changed the name again. You all are tossed like the waves and have been for years. I must say that Yoneq has created quite a lucrative bunch of businesses and has accumulated quite a slew of properties. Maybe you can describe the historical property in Fort Myers, Florida that is going to be a high rise nursing home and then describe how the communities managed that little deal and how they/you all are taking care of their/your elderly please. Done.

Anonymous said...

oh my ! set up a wbpage to persecute those who dont use capital letters!

WHAT FUCKING IDIOTS!

HAHAHAH!

Anonymous said...

Hang on Cortez- the John who is posting at the top here is deaf, if I remember correctly, and wonderingaboutalot doesn't live in the Tribes, he's just trying to help maintain a balanced view.

Accuracy is an important element when trying to communicate these things.

I've seen some children do very well, and some do just horribly, depending on the community. When you move around a lot, like most there do, then the parents really need to be the ones making sure their children are being educated. Some do, and some don't. Some can't. That seems to be the deciding factor as to how well the child does in an individual sense.

Some communities follow closely with the state, and some don't. Germany has had a rough go of it.

The community has been trying to implement their apprenticeship program for many years and so far it is pretty unsuccessful, but if they keep trying I am sure they will get it off the ground.

The history and current events classes that I personally sat in were pretty twisted. And most children after 13-14 don't go to training anymore at all, but get absorbed by the industries. Those were my main issues.

wonderingaboutalot said...

I am not a tt member and was not a part of their home schooling. I dont capitalize or have proper punctuation out of pure laziness and the fact that it is not really neccessary when posting. So cortez whats up your ass! why such a angry condescending tone? Are you an ex-member?

All sincere questions also.

wonderingaboutalot said...

Are you an english teacher?

Anonymous said...

I recently saw your phamplet calling for a boycott of the Matte Factor.

I can only say that while I find the views you ascribe to the leader of the TT's to be completely reprenhensible, I have found many of the individuals in the TT to be sincere and good people, and most unusally, people very willing to LISTEN views opposed to their own. This at least lets some of them, if not their leader, off the hook of being "fanatical".

It is a truism about all "cults" that the the evil (or good) in them often comes from ONE posion apple at the top, and from there, it drifts down onto many well-intentioned, weaker people. From my impression this is what has occurred with the TT. But it is important to remember than many naive indivduals are attracted to cults and often they do not possess the maturity to understand what they are "agreeing with". Once they are "in" the cult it increasingly difficult to challenge the "mind-set". It is thus really only neccessary to CHALLENGE these people, to FORCE them think clearly and individually. Then they will then quite often withdraw views which their conscience tells them are wrong. I have had many conversations with individual members of the TT and I have never had a single one of them try to win me over to the views of their leader. Frankly, I think this is because I think THEY KNOW that his views are immoral and wrong. Now it well may be that some of them believe what he says AS INDIVIDUALS, but others, it seems to me remain quiet or uninterested in his views altogether. I am not excusing them; just recognizing that you must try to see these people as individuals, or else you fall into the same mistake (social alienation) which leads to the creation of such "cults" in the first place.


A long while ago, after discovering "their" views about child-raising I realized the seriousness of the situation. But I personally doubt that a boycott will make any difference. Their organization is very wealthy and they only run the cafe in order to draw in new members, not for profit. Perhaps it would be better use of energy to just keep talking them out of some of the mistaken views of one man who founded them.

Anonymous said...

I recently saw your phamplet calling for a boycott of the Matte Factor.

I can only say that while I find the views you ascribe to the leader of the TT's to be completely reprenhensible, I have found many of the individuals in the TT to be sincere and good people, and most unusally, people very willing to LISTEN views opposed to their own. This at least lets some of them, if not their leader, off the hook of being "fanatical".

It is a truism about all "cults" that the the evil (or good) in them often comes from ONE posion apple at the top, and from there, it drifts down onto many well-intentioned, weaker people. From my impression this is what has occurred with the TT. But it is important to remember than many naive indivduals are attracted to cults and often they do not possess the maturity to understand what they are "agreeing with". Once they are "in" the cult it increasingly difficult to challenge the "mind-set". It is thus really only neccessary to CHALLENGE these people, to FORCE them think clearly and individually. Then they will then quite often withdraw views which their conscience tells them are wrong. I have had many conversations with individual members of the TT and I have never had a single one of them try to win me over to the views of their leader. Frankly, I think this is because I think THEY KNOW that his views are immoral and wrong. Now it well may be that some of them believe what he says AS INDIVIDUALS, but others, it seems to me remain quiet or uninterested in his views altogether. I am not excusing them; just recognizing that you must try to see these people as individuals, or else you fall into the same mistake (social alienation) which leads to the creation of such "cults" in the first place.


A long while ago, after discovering "their" views about child-raising I realized the seriousness of the situation. But I personally doubt that a boycott will make any difference. Their organization is very wealthy and they only run the cafe in order to draw in new members, not for profit. Perhaps it would be better use of energy to just keep talking them out of some of the mistaken views of one man who founded them.

Anonymous said...

I recently saw your phamplet calling for a boycott of the Matte Factor.

I can only say that while I find the views you ascribe to the leader of the TT's to be completely reprenhensible, I have found many of the individuals in the TT to be sincere and good people, and most unusally, people very willing to LISTEN views opposed to their own. This at least lets some of them, if not their leader, off the hook of being "fanatical".

It is a truism about all "cults" that the the evil (or good) in them often comes from ONE posion apple at the top, and from there, it drifts down onto many well-intentioned, weaker people. From my impression this is what has occurred with the TT. But it is important to remember than many naive indivduals are attracted to cults and often they do not possess the maturity to understand what they are "agreeing with". Once they are "in" the cult it increasingly difficult to challenge the "mind-set". It is thus really only neccessary to CHALLENGE these people, to FORCE them think clearly and individually. Then they will then quite often withdraw views which their conscience tells them are wrong. I have had many conversations with individual members of the TT and I have never had a single one of them try to win me over to the views of their leader. Frankly, I think this is because I think THEY KNOW that his views are immoral and wrong. Now it well may be that some of them believe what he says AS INDIVIDUALS, but others, it seems to me remain quiet or uninterested in his views altogether. I am not excusing them; just recognizing that you must try to see these people as individuals, or else you fall into the same mistake (social alienation) which leads to the creation of such "cults" in the first place.


A long while ago, after discovering "their" views about child-raising I realized the seriousness of the situation. But I personally doubt that a boycott will make any difference. Their organization is very wealthy and they only run the cafe in order to draw in new members, not for profit. Perhaps it would be better use of energy to just keep talking them out of some of the mistaken views of one man who founded them.

Aloysius Horn said...

First thing: They are not the views THAT I ASCRIBE to their leader. They are direct quotations from his writings the authenticity of which no TTer has ever disputed and the content of which no TTer has ever disowned in front of me, or on this blog.

I think much of what you say is dead-on correct. Many TTers may not, deep-down, agree with these teachings and are now "stuck" in TT. We need to have sympathy for these people and, when possible, offer them a way out. Talking to them one-on-one, as you say you are doing, is a necessary and positive thing, and I applaud you for it. (I hope one thing that you tell them is that their leader's views on race, gender and homosexuality are abhorrent and are at the root of the greatest crimes against humanity.) You will see that nothing posted here advocates persecuting or insulting the individual TTers here in Ithaca. If we support their businesses, however, we are facilitating the system that keeps them (and their children) entrapped.

Their organization might be wealthy, but I believe the Ithaca needs the income from the café to stay here, long-term. If Maté Factor fails to be profitable, by no means will Sprigg's empire crumble from its failure, alone. However, a boycott by conscientious Ithacans may keep the group from growing or adding new businesses here. Ithaca should set an example. If every community in which they operate did so, it might really put a squeeze on Uncle Eugene.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your response.

I said you "ascribed" views to Spriggs views because you actually do not provide footnotes to his various statements in the flyer you distribued. Are they verbal or written? Where did they appear? Are members of the TT actually supposed to read Sprigg's literature BEFORE joining? You also do not indicate whether they are verbal quotes, perhaps lacking context, or whether they are quotes from books or speeches. You should should provide that documenation whether or not individual TTer's "dispute" his statements or not, not the least because I have the strong impression that his writings are NOT required reading of prospective members of the TT. From the utterly naivte and innocence of many TTer's with whom I have repeatedly spoken I am almost certain that his (Sprigg's) RAVINGS form no part of their initation to the Twelve Tribes. I did not even know that the TT HAD A LEADER until I had been going into their cafe for TWO YEARS. Perhaps that says something about the part they wish him to play in the overall public profile they wish to create, but it may also represent a certain complexity within the hierarchy of the group itself--- which may be less monolithic in outlook than it might, at first, appear.

Yes, I have told TTer's MANY TIMES that that many of their views are "wrong". I also have given them my REASONS, not just blanket assertions. Their response has been tolerant, even humorous. I have told them many times that CULTS distort religion to their own ends. Invaribaly, one on one to me, these people nod sheepishly, but the more of them that are present around the table, the more vociferous the discussion becomes. Is this any surprise? This just happens to be the psycholgy of Cults and, to some degree, of all closed communities. As I said before, by being patient and loving with them, but giving them strong REASONING to conterdict irrational thinking, I personally believe I have reached several of them. I am convinced that these members, because of what I have said to them, remain 'freer' than before, even though they may not be able to declare their differences before the group; or be yet ready to leave the Twelve Tribes.

I am not opposed to exposing Spriggs, and I respect you right to boycott TT. All I am saying is that cults and cult-behavior are a complex phenomenon, one that contains elements of good threaded with evil. It is important to understand what these people are "in reaction" to before one can understand them, or successfully change them. This makes it imperative not to be hostile to them, something I am aware you are not advocating.

Clearly Spriggs dosen't like gays, "multicultralism" (an almost meaningless term) Jews, defends slavery because it is mentioned in the Bible, belives in brainwashing children, ect, and SOME TTer's may go along with these beliefs. But I have to examine my own experience. I know several Jews who belong to to TT. I have seen Blacks and Gays waited on in their cafe. (In fact I was careful to observe how they were treated, and they were treated no different than anyone else.)

I just don't think it is particularly helpful in psychological situations such as cults provide, to simply make sweeping assertions like the one you advocate wit the words "The worse crimes against humanity are those against gender and homosexuality." I have never initated a discussion with TTer's in that manner.(Do you best undertstand a pride of Lions by cawling int otheir cave?) But if the subject came up, I said such views are WRONG. If my view was expresssed, as it often was, after having patiently listened to their own Biblical interpretations, they invariably let the matter drop, or simply said, in more qualified words, to me "We belive that we are all sinners, but homosexuality is not OUR WAY. Fine. If someone tells me "Heterosexuality is not my way" I also put up no argument. Let a thousand-flowers blooms even if their scent is not your own, is what I always say.

To conclude with a personal note. One night at TT there was discussion of "Child-raising" which upset me enormously. I realized here that their views were entirely incompatable with my own and represented a severe curtailment of what I belive to be freedoms, not CHOICES, with which we should all be endowed. After this discussion I voluntarily began not to frequent TT. I retain, however, cordial relationships with several TTer's whom I freqently see on the streets and always engage in polite conversation.


Sincerely

Aloysius Horn said...

Dear Anon,

I appreciate you taking the time to give us your impression of TTers. Again, I find much to agree with in what you say. To answer your question regarding the source of the quotations: each one in the pamplet DOES provide the name of the document from which it is sourced. Some of these are literature available on the TTs own website, others are “teachings” of Yoneq/Spriggs on various subjects. Apparently every community has the same collection of these that the more senior TTers use to provide guidance to newcomers and children. I accessed these at the “twelvetribesteachings” website to which there is a link on this site. These people collect and publish these documents as they are leaked from the various communities.

You ask if recruits are “supposed” to read these things before joining. Of course it is the responsibility of every adult to know the beliefs and practices of any group they join…especially one that they give their life to! I have heard that certain “difficult” teachings are revealed after recruits have been fully absorbed into the community, so as not to scare them off. Obviously the longer one is with the group, the harder it is to break free. I think your supposition that TT may not be as monolithic and fully controlled by Spriggs as we make it out to be will be quickly abandoned after hearing about the experiences of former TTers who have left. I urge you to put your questions to them. Many of them discuss their experiences at http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi

I hope we never act in hostility to the individuals in the local TT group, although I can see how they might regard our actions that way since we aim to curtain their income.

I think it is appropriate and necessary to point to history to judge the practical effects of beliefs like those that the Jews and Blacks are cursed (the Holocaust, centuries of black slavery). But you are more sanguine than I about the efficacy using of reason to persuade TTers away from their beliefs. You see in our pamphlet that Spriggs explicitly teaches them to abandon use of reason! In any case, I hope you continue to use your personal relationship with some TTers to try to coax them from their views and affiliation with TT if you can. You certainly will be doing them and their children a favor if you are successful. Thanks for expressing your views here and I hope you find some of the postings, comments and links here useful.

Anonymous said...

Thanks.

Just a couple of points.

I was interested in your statement (which confirms my hunch) that TTer's are probably NOT confronted BEFORE THEY JOIN with all the more "difficult" beliefs of the group. That certainly fits the classic pattern of cults. Again, I emphasize my own experience as a potential "recruit". (For everyone who goes in the Matte Factor is a potential recruit, as will be obvious to you if you have been there.) Once again, I did not know that they had a leader for years after talking to them on a regular basis.

You say that "adults" should "know" the beliefs of groups which they "give their life to." It is not my impression the majority of TTer's swear to stay in the group FOR LIFE, but, in principle, you are right. Nevertheless, are they specifically told about what Spriggs teaches BEFORE joining? Even if they are, does this apply assent to his words? (Do they take an oath?) In any case, do mature ADULTS join cults to begin with? I think not. Rather people who are insecure, isolated, or somehow weak, join cults.

I have read the horror stories you refer me to and I can only say that all these thigs fit an archetypal pattern of cults. One embraces them for their utopianism and one abandons them with deep feelings of recrimmation. This is such an acrchetype that it hardly matters to talk about specific instances. Such "evidence" is always inconclusive since well-balanced people tend not to join cults to begin with. Even if we assume the worst about the TT we are left always left to wonder at the "credibility" of those whose who freely joined such what was obviously a cult, not a community, in the first place.

I agree with you that there ARE practical effects of beliefs in history, but I think you should consider the issue in a larger frame of reference. Take, for example, the NATION-STATE, which is, in itself, a type of "CULT" (a group which uniquely holds some "sacred truth" and which excludes "non-believers") We Americans are all, by nature of being born here, involuntary members of this "cult". Naturally this cult professes its wisdom, its "freedom", its "liberty",its superiority, not to mention its unique ability to solve other nation's problems. But of course, when we become ADULTS, we recognize that not everything we have been taught is true, and that we have been largely duped by forces beyond our control. For this we have to thank, not our leaders, who generally LIE to us, but a few people among us who steer us back to REASON, to which we REMAIN ACCESSIBLE EVEN THOUGH our wise leaders warn us, like Spriggs, against its use! As far as I can see you and I and everyone else is thus in exactly the same situation as the members of Twelve Tribes find themselves. That is why I counsel compassion for them. Of course you are also right that there exists the difference that they did "voluntarily" join the group. But for what reason does a American soldier "voluntarily" sign up to fire his weapon at Sunnis or Shias in THEIR OWN COUNTRY of Iraq? How "reasonable" are any of us, in the last analysis? To speak, as you do, of "adult responsibility" is, it seems to me, to simply run from confronting some not very pretty REALITIES about human beings. We need to confront those things by TALKING about them, for there is always the danger that when we see "the other" in a situation we believe that we are "not in", or could never fall for, we mistake the matter. We need to take a second look to recognize what we have in common with people in cults, for like it or not, we are all, to some degree or other, participants in the horrible irrationality of groups.


Sincerely,

Anon

michael korn said...

i have studied the curse of cham. the jewish rabbis make some very interesting comments on this passage in genesis about noah's drunkenness. they say that when the family left the ark, they were commanded to repopulate the world. noah however was reluctant, lest his descendants again be wiped out by an angry God. therefore God instituted the covenant of the rainbow to reassure him. noah's drunkenness was a prelude to his renewing his marital relations with his wife. he was "getting into the mood" and perhaps easing his troubled conscience. he overdid it. the rabbis then teach that ham prevented his father from having more children, concerned that there were already enough sons to contest inheritance without adding more. noah cursed canaan as a measure for measure response to ham's interference with his having more children.

the rabbis also teach that cham had sexual relations on the ark against God's instruction that all of Noah's family abstain during the year long flood event. cham was given a black skin colour in response to this action. cham was eager to repopulate the world and to return to normalcy. canaan was conceived on the ark and bore God's disfavour, which was extended by Noah's curse. this is similar to David's first son with Bathsheba dying as a result of his sin with her. however their next son, Solomon, became the heir to the throne and Israel's greatest OT King. and this brings me to the main point.

now the important point i want to make here is that the curse was on canaan, not cham, and the curse was to be a slave to shem and perhaps yefet. no other of cham's descendants were cursed. this means that the black man per se is not cursed in any way shape or form. whether or not you accept the rabbinical account that the black races derive from cham, who was given a black colouring as punishment for not maintaining sexual abstenance, the rabbis would never say that the Bible meant to place a curse of servitude upon all blacks. this is totally false. only canaan was cursed with servitude, and many rabbis think this means that canaan's land was meant to be taken by israel later on.

whoever attempts to justify black slavery on Biblical grounds would have to prove that all black slaves were of canaanite origins, and that no one is able to do, because it is simply false.

furthermore, even if Cham's eldest son bore a curse, this does not mean that his other progeny mentioned in the Bible also bore this curse. on the contrary, Egypt was one of Cham's children, and ancient Egypt was the most glorious civilization in history!

Cassandra said...

The narrative surrounding 'Noah' is so obviously symbolic and allegorical that I will make only one statement: When the word 'wine' appears in the Biblical myth it usually stands as a metaphor for divinity - remember the 'Father's vineyard, the new wine,' etc. Wine, blood and fire all belong in the same typological category.
Noah's 'drunkeness' denotes a conditioned mind, one deeply asleep. A mind unable to respond to the 'divine fire.' In the myth the 'earth' cannot 'structurize' the divine fire/spirit: it drinks it, as it drinks Abel's blood; or it reduces it to wine; or it acts as a sieve and it becomes "hell's fire" in a mythical "below".

'Noah's drunkeness' represents an unevolved state - a life not entered into the process of evolution (hence he falls asleep with his genitals uncovered).

The Bible is a mythopoeic narrative. Not a history book!